Barry Zito has won 3 games and predictably Zohn readers are getting on me for saying Zito doesn’t stand a chance in hell of winning more than 5 1/2 games this season. I’ts like I committed a sin or broke a law. I made the remark on Comcast TV, and still stand by it.
He pitched well against the Cubs and Padres, no great feat. I don’t believe he will keep this up. We’ve seen this before, a few good starts and then the roof caves in. I’m anticipating some roof action.
I’ll tell you this. I have no stake in Zito failing. If he turns out to be a good pitcher — good enough, say, not to get run off the postseason roster by his own manager (not by me) — I will say good for him, I guess I was wrong, and then I’ll move on with my life. Simple as that.
Dave T
I am with you my friend. I am hoping (yes we have done that before) that this is the Zito we can see for an prolonged period of time. But like you, recent history suggests that before long it will come crashing down around him. I hope not, and am completely willing to eat crow, and very happily so, should Zito coninue to excel. My guess is that he pitches ok for another start or two, he does not get the run support and he gets some losses or no decisions and then it is back to mediocrity. Heck, let’s just hope we are wrong here and he becomes a viable part of this rotation and Sanchez, becomes a tradeable option, as I think he is far more moveable and has better return value. That I think could play well for the Giants come later this month.
July 8th, 2011 9:39 am
Stan
What do people want? They don’t call you “The Impertinent Lowell” for nuttin!
July 8th, 2011 9:52 am
Mark M
The question I have is….”is this recent spurt of decent pitching enough to raise his value in the trade market?” If so, dump him. He’s no long term solution for anything and if Sabean can get a can of beans for him, he can look like a genius for dumping some of that noose like salary that’s been handicapping this team for years.
Like so many of your questions Lowell, you already know the answer. Have fun on the Big Island. Beautiful place as we just returned from diving there last month. Love the water and the night dives are uniquely amazing….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWskEQO2u2k
July 8th, 2011 10:04 am
Stan
Well,for one thing-he already had one win. And two-he’s only at 3 so far. Its Zito. His nexet outing he could just as easily give up three home runs in the first inning,the losing has begun…and in the postgame interview still have that Zito gaze of bewilderment. Some call it deer in the headlights,to me it’s more like dissasociation with existentialism. He ain’t there..
July 8th, 2011 10:39 am
Johnc
I also have dumped on Zito but so far he is pitching well. He does have a history of pitching well before going toxic However, if this year turns out to be an exception where he breaks that pattern ,then I be happy to eat crow. I will be delighted for the sake of the Giants. We shall see.
July 8th, 2011 11:09 am
gary
HIs being effective 3 games in a row is a breath of fresh air.
He has been consistently so bad, no one in his/her right mind could have predicted this.
I will enjoy it while it lasts.
If it suckers some team into taking on him/bloated contract, that would be a huge plus for the Giants.
No reason to be embarassed.
July 8th, 2011 11:31 am
Dennis
I don’t think you should be embarrassed, but it is fair for us to have a little fun with it (while we can).
July 8th, 2011 11:33 am
KauaiRobert
I’m still sticking with UNDER.
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You and me Lowell…I got your back!
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-ALOHA-
July 8th, 2011 11:38 am
Dave T
@Mark M, the problem is, he would have to have the trade value of say, Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay or Tim Lincecum. Zito’s contract is just too prohibitive to trade. Some GM would have to have just recently returned from exile on the Isle of Mann or recently returned from an extended Antarctic Expediditon to trade for Zito. Any mass improvement of Zito can only help the Giants if it becomes prolonged and sustained giving them the ability to move Sanchez or prospects to gain value. And I really don’t think you will find any analyst that would disagree with me there. That contract is the issue above all else.
@Stan, here we somewhat agree. With Zito we are just waiting for the implosion, the other shoe to drop, the house of cards to come down. And yeah, he had this look of, “wow, gee did I just do that?” last night, instead of confidence and steely resolve. And yeah, that kinda scares me.
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In the end, lets just hope that somehow, some way this works out well for us. We all know the Giants need to make some kind of move. I think they can win the NL West as is, but they need to make some kind of move to really get going. But hey, look at them now! Panda is feeling good and playing well, Schierholz is playing very well and they are holding their own, 10 games over .500 with likelt 50+ wins prior to the All Star Break. So far, so good!
July 8th, 2011 12:37 pm
Neal
He might get to 5 to 6 wins who knows, I thought the original post that Grant did and you agreed that if the Giants are going to win , Zito is the most important part of the puzzle, now that is really far fetched. They don’t need Bake Ziti to win but let’s hope he does well and maybe we can unload him to another team but please not the Yanks, that sucker won’t last two starts in the New York lime light.
July 8th, 2011 1:09 pm
glenellen
I smell a trade coming up with the Mets in town. Zito or Sanchez ?
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Zito to NY (we eat some contract) w/ Sheirholtz & a couple minor leaugers for Jose Reyes. Or that same deal w/ Jon Sanchez. Sanchez and Reyes are both banged up anyway. We would have to long term Reyes for it to work.
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I think something is going on and I hope it is not for Beltran.
July 8th, 2011 1:37 pm
htwaits
Zito wasn’t good enough to be in a four man rotation last year, but how do the Giants get to the playoffs and win the world series without Zito’s 9 wins? Take away two of those wins and they don’t make the playoffs.
July 8th, 2011 1:39 pm
tkh
your level of embarrassment should equal the level of enjoyment and self satisfaction you demonstrated on tv when you made the statement. If you just professionally made the statement your entitled to your opinion right or wrong, however if you got a wee bit of enjoyment or laughter out of another’s misfortune then you should show the same level of embarrassment “IF” you turn out to be wrong. Only you know the answer to that question
July 8th, 2011 2:16 pm
Mark M
No argument there Dave. I’d be glad to get a partial dump of that salary. Only the Yankees might be arrogant and frivolous enough to take on his entire salary in some sort of trade. Basically, if Sabean can get some meaningful payroll reduction out of this, I’d say go for it. The iron is HOT right now. Just one of his predictable meltdowns will drop his value at this point.
July 8th, 2011 2:28 pm
MJ
Stan….ehhhh, wrong, good luck in double jeopardy. Zito is 3-0 since coming back with wins over the Cubs, Tigers, and SD. Yes he’s only at 3…in 3 attempts and has looked very good in those 3 outings. 3-0 is 3-0. And a ovation on top of that. Whats he have…10-15 starts left this year, iif he stays in the rotation, no reason to doubt he’ll get to 6.
July 8th, 2011 2:30 pm
mike
Zito has your comments posted on the chalkboard. Finally we have figured out how to inspire him and it took a nasty comment by Lowell Cohn Zone to do it. You are quite the motivator.Now for the next prediction — Zito blows by the 5.5 wins and wins at least 8 games this year. If he does Lowell should retire.
July 8th, 2011 2:36 pm
Wilson
It wasn’t your prediction that ticked me off, Lowell, it was the mean-spiritedness. Kicking a guy while he’s down is not attractive.
July 8th, 2011 4:21 pm
Wilson
“He pitched well against the Cubs and Padres, no great feat. ”
Even now you can’t give credit where it’s due. His ERA in those three games is under 1.5. Every other Giants pitcher struggled during that stretch. He was the best Giants starter during that time. Will he keep it up? Doubtful, to be realistic – but possible. And I know that you’ll giggle if he slips.
July 8th, 2011 4:28 pm
Stan
Wilson,126 million dollars is never “down”. Open your eyes.
July 8th, 2011 6:12 pm
eb
I’m assuming you based that comment on his past performances, I mean, what has he done previously to give you the inclination that he’ll start out gangbusters? I think your comment was legit.
July 8th, 2011 11:26 pm
MJ
Stan,
Ever heard the saying “money doesn’t buy happiness”? You remind me of TO’s rep and her 30 million reasons to live statement.
July 9th, 2011 7:08 am
Bob In Pacifica
I wonder if Zito had signed with someone like the Red Sox or the Yankees, teams that could put up lots of runs on the scoreboard, if people would have noticed his “fail”.
July 9th, 2011 7:31 am
BillyBeane
zito will end up 20-1 and win a cy young, i heard the giants are planning to lock him up with a contract bigger than a-rods. ratto mentioned its in the ball park of 10 yrs. 280 million!!
July 9th, 2011 10:25 am
Wilson
Stan, I’m sure you wouldn’t have taken that contract in his shoes, and would have given most of it back when you stumbled, but he’s just not the paragon you are. Past a certain point, money doesn’t ensure happiness, and a lot of rich people are miserable. Bottom line, the money is his, whether he does good or bad. So forget about the contract. I’m sure that Zito has suffered over his failures, and Giants fans of good will should be pulling for him.
July 9th, 2011 10:29 am
ray ratto
giants rumored to offer zito 10yr 280mill!! zito is a SURE ballot hall of famer!!
July 9th, 2011 1:02 pm
Frank in Minnesota
Wow…sounds like an exclusive, right here on this blog!!!
July 9th, 2011 6:26 pm
Stan
Zito has “suffered”??? you say?? I dont see it that way. Suffering is a homeless mother with cancer trying to support children.
If Zito EVER complains to me-I give him the slap upside his head George S.Patton treatment.
July 9th, 2011 7:37 pm
Stan
This is what gets me about Zito’s Zombies. Its not enough Zito has money,health,and youth-THEY want the rest of us to only say nice things about his rotten Giants pitching record. Amazing.
July 10th, 2011 8:47 am
Doug
Cohn,
You clearly have “stake” in Zito failing; or else, you would not write this lovely exposition. “Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I’ll show you a guy you can beat every time.”
Lou Brock–
Good day,
Lowell
July 10th, 2011 9:00 am
Stan
I wonder why its so important to some that Zito have a perfect life,free from critisizm? Five years of failure…
And then,of course some could be Giant employee’s who are trollers…
July 10th, 2011 10:14 am
Wilson
And I wonder why it’s so important to some that Zito be ridiculed – even when he’s doing well. Perhaps a character flaw in the critics.
It’s all pretty simple. Zito was given a ridiculous contract by Sabean and Magowan. He hasn’t lived up to the hype. He failed to accomplish what we all hoped he would. Up to this month he was a slightly worse than average MLB pitcher. He was awful compared to what his contact suggested. And that contract has handcuffed the Giants.
But I believe that Zito has tried his best. He’s not lazy, he’s not kicking back and drinking Chardonnay, he simply lost his sharpness. It happens to players all the time in every sport. If he knew how to regain his form, he would have done it. Seems to me that it’s fair to say to Bochy, “Get him out of there”, and to Sabean, “Try to unload his contract” – but it’s not fair to be nasty to a guy who’s giving it all he has. Which is all any of us can do.
July 10th, 2011 2:20 pm
Kathy
@ Stan: And I wonder why it’s so important to you to cast Zito as a completely worthless human being.
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I’m not a Zito fan but I have to admire the class he’s shown as he was publicly demoted, then held off the playoff roster and then has worked hard to come back from his injury. He’s never whined or stopped being a team player, even when he wasn’t really part of the team anymore.
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I hope he can extend his recent (short) spell of great pitching. I have my doubts he can do it. But I don’t see any need to disparage him the way you do. People are very rarely all good or all bad, as you seem to believe.
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Try to let go of your need to see everything in absolute, black-and-white terms. No one here has posted anything remotely arguing that Zito :have a perfect life free from criticism.” But you’ve not made any cogent argument why he should have a life free of any positive comments.
July 10th, 2011 3:03 pm
Stan
Kathy and Wison, using the classic spin-I expected better.
First of all-how do you know he hasnt complained? he’s worked hard? The Giants themselves via Bruce Jenkens felt he HADN’T done what they asked all off season. Zito himself he admitted all he had done was follow some dumb work out video.Its July and he’s in condition? good for him,any longer and the season would be over!
Giving all he has? LOL..not that I see it. He’s given the least of what he has.
Zito could start world war three-and those same people would forgive him…and DONT come back with the obvious spin on that. You can be better than that.
July 10th, 2011 5:26 pm
Casparinn
Stan, take a look at Zito’s last 3 years at Oakland and see the remarkable similarity to his giants stats. It is not like he went into the tank when he traded uniforms, he continued the path he was on. So blame the giants management all you want, they got what they paid for.
July 10th, 2011 9:44 pm
Doug
1- I stopped posting on this blog a few weeks ago. I grew tired of the inconsistent approval process.
2- Any future posts by ‘Doug’, including the one above, are some other fellow.
3- Stan accusing other posters of trolling is rich. He is the definition of a troll and it is a mystery why he is allowed to continue posting here, especially after his racist comments over the last year plus.
July 11th, 2011 5:52 am
Dennis
Kathy and Wilson, its not personal for Stan – its about the MONEY. Stan doesn’t like anyone who makes a lot of money. If Zito was only making chump change Stan would be on your side.
July 11th, 2011 6:32 am
Stan
If Zito were making chump change your beloved Giants would have dumped him years ago.
July 11th, 2011 10:15 am
Dennis
Stan, good point! But you wouldn’t hate him as much as you do now.
July 11th, 2011 11:46 am
Wilson
Dennis – you’re not implying that Stan is a JEALOUS person, are you? Surely not.
July 11th, 2011 12:31 pm
Kathy
@ Dennis, I’m not really on Zito’s side, he drives me bewillikers watching him pitch. I don’t think he’s been worth the money.
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But Stan’s diatribes just get so tedious and are so illogical. And Zito’s not evil incarnate, he’s just a lousy pitcher.
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Any human with a heart has to at least give the guy credit for not whining to reporters about his demotion (as many overpaid athletes are so quick to do).
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Zito’s usually got half a decent season in him. Maybe we’ll get lucky and his crummy half-season was the time he spent on the DL.
July 11th, 2011 3:51 pm
Stan
And let’s this stright to call me a troll is to PROVE you dont know a thing,you have no understanding of complicsted topics…because anybody who reads me knows I am the anti-troll supreme. I get it right.
July 11th, 2011 4:35 pm
Stan
Except for that rare typo…
July 11th, 2011 5:16 pm
Stan
Find where I ever wrote Zito is evil. Now,thats a troll response to put words in somebodys mouth to make your argument. I dont admire Zito,he IS a lousy pitcher when he realizes it. And the final words arent written on Zito. My gut feeling is he leads a off field life that isnt conducive to being a top athlete-hence the Giants being fed up with him in spring training-something you Zito Zombies ignore I notice.
July 12th, 2011 6:26 am
Stan
..oh,I should have included Zito’s taking his demotion and all the rest you credit him(he shows up for ALL the practices!-lol) for as just making sure the contract is honored and the money for nothing flowing. For 126 million I wouldnt complain to the Giants either-would you?
July 12th, 2011 6:29 am
Stan
For 40 million-Rowand hasnt complained.
For 62 million-JaMarcus Russell never complained.
Beidrens with his 40 mill hasnt complained…
Alex Smith…he’s a pal.
I see a pattern.
July 12th, 2011 10:36 am