First of all, thanks for you thoughtful and passionate responses to my earlier post, which I come back to now. Would it have been acceptable if the anonymous speaker said English instead of Anglo Saxon? Please think about this. I am eager for your answer. So far no one has addressed this question.
Stan
Yes,of course. Nobody is offended when somebody takes pride in their Italian,Greek (you did read about the triple jumper who was banned for a racist tweet?) Or Jewish heritage and religion.
But “Anglo Saxon” isn’t the same as “My Asian heritage”..no Asian Klux Klan ever hung black people..or formed for that matter.
If you dont know history and take everything at face value then Anglo Saxon is innocuous. Most people know modern history.
July 26th, 2012 4:40 pm
Zak
You’ve answered your own question: no one can claim that anymore, the term for people as English is not present tense. Brits don’t refer to their own people even as English speaking so they reflect the multi-cultural population. So not at all is that better, it’s more secular if anything. It’s absurd to say that “we’re all English” today. That’s why the British have taken that name solely.
July 26th, 2012 4:54 pm
Geoffrey Zuma
The English would not be caught dead being called Scottish, nor Irish, nor Welsh. The same is true in reverse. The British do not refer to themselves as “British,” but Britons. Why? So as not to be French, Italian, Spanish, or any other filthy nationality.
If you think there’s racism here, you ain’t seen nothin. At least there is a healthy debate here. Anglo-Saxon or Jew, Negro or Fundamentalist Christian, Human or AlienMormon, we all have a shot here.
July 26th, 2012 6:06 pm
Taylor
Whats wrong with what this “anonymous” Romney advisor/staff member said, is not the quote you provided, but what he said after the quote you provided.
“The White House didn’t fully appreciate the shared history we have.”
That is where the problem lies. Not in identifying that because we were once a British Colony that we have a special relationship with them. Its suggesting that because the president is black he does not appreciate it. And clearly that is the insinuation.
July 26th, 2012 6:22 pm
ollie hoop
Although the USA is predominantly English-speaking, there are many influences besides that of England that make up our heritage. For example, the constitution was influenced by the Iroquois nation.
Because “Anglo-Saxon heritage” seems to be part of the covertly anti-Black attack on Obama that presents him as somehow “foreign” by questioning his birth certificate, his religion, and so on, it receives extra scrutiny.
You do have to wonder about the term “Anglo-Saxon,” which seems to allude to a Germanic England prior to the Norman conquest. Are the French that politically toxic almost a millennium after William the Conqueror?
July 26th, 2012 6:55 pm
Lo Sbandato
I’m not sure what Zak is on about (and I never know what Stan is talk about, or to), but “English” and “Anglo Saxon” are NOT synonymous. Anglo Saxon refers to pre-Conquest England, and more specifically, the aristocracy that ran things before William and his Norman holligans showed up to crash the party. There are very strong caste implications involved (“Yes, but when did your ancestors land here?”).
Of course, none of this is what is going here, at least from the American perspective, but there’s still the caste implications, that “we Anglo Saxons” are unsullied by even those “ethnic” English speakers, like the Irish or the Scots. It became code for “white power holders”, or even overt in the somewhat dated term WASP. That’s apparently what the Times is so upset about (which absolutely has nothing to do with political leanings of the paper, right?).
July 26th, 2012 7:03 pm
Lo Sbandato
You know what, I just re-read that times article, and I see that the offending passage is not the Anglo-Saxon part, it’s this:
“The White House didn’t fully appreciate the shared history we have.”
In other words, “It’s a white thing, a black man wouldn’t understand.” I can see how that could easily be viewed as racially provocative, but the Times article doesn’t really get into that so much, but rather into castigating Romney for not either flat out repudiating the quote or throwing whoever said it under the bus. Strange.
July 26th, 2012 7:14 pm
Tony
To me, Anglo Saxon is the “racial” designation of the early people of England, and probably the ancestry of the current establishment. English refers to societal characteristics such as language and manners and government and business and food and art. I guess one might call English a cultural construct. So the difference seems pretty significant. Trying to relate based on Anglo Saxonism would make for a good English comedy bit.
July 26th, 2012 9:01 pm
Lo Sbandato
Geoffrey, what are you talking about? Why would the English want to be identified as French anymore than a French person would want to be confused with the English? Do Americans (who are actually “citizens of the United States”) merely identify as such so as to not be thought “filthy” Canadians? And God help you if ever refer to someone from Ireland as “British”. Ethnic pride is bunk, but it is NOT the same as “racism”.
July 27th, 2012 12:41 am
Dennis
The shot at the White House has to do with what Republicans, rightly, consider Obama’s less than enthusiastic embrace of Britain during his short time in office. He has slighted the Queen by giving her an iPod with his speeches on it, like she should care, and he had the bust of Churchill removed from display before a visit from the British Prime Minister, among other slights over the years. In my book, the fact that he is black has nothing to do with his lack of understanding or appreciation of our special relationship with England. He just doesn’t get it. But the fact that he is black certainly does seem to be a very important point of distinction for those of a more liberal persuasion.
July 27th, 2012 7:16 am
starburst
“English” heritage is equally offensive, and equally inaccurate. People from many, many cultures contributed to our national heritage.
As an Irish American, being called English or Anglo is an insult. Note that the Irish “Famine” is officially recognized as part of the Genocide curriculum in California and other states. There was no famine. The English government embarked on a deliberate policy of starving the population and forcing them to leave the island. One crop failed, while tons of food was transported from Ireland to England by English landlords. The population of the island was reduced by 20-25%, with about 1.5 million Irish immigrating to the U.S.
From Wikipedia (I have read the historical material but this is easier to point to):
Charles Trevelyan, the civil servant with most direct responsibility for the government’s handling of the famine, described it in 1848 as “a direct stroke of an all-wise and all-merciful Providence”, which laid bare “the deep and inveterate root of social evil”; the Famine, he affirmed, was “the sharp but effectual remedy by which the cure is likely to be effected. God grant that the generation to which this opportunity has been offered may rightly perform its part…”
July 27th, 2012 7:39 am
Dave T
Oh how I love a good politcal debate. There are so many good comments here I won’t delve into much. What I truly appreciate about this is simply that we live in a country that where people can make comments as this person did and aside from the public scrutiny, are free to do so without reprecussion. That is what makes this country great through and through. That we can be a multicultural mecca that allows us the freedoms we have.
July 27th, 2012 8:11 am
"The Mick"
I’ve often thought that what the USA needs is an annual event — big one too with lots of entertainment, dancing bears, the works — at which all of the racial pejoratives were put in a hat and a delegate from each group had to pull a name. That name would be then used for a years to designate those people.
.
Think of it: for 2012, Jews would be called “W@ps,” Italians could draw “Micks” and African-Americans could possibly draw “honky.” Think what that would do for Rap lyrics. The Russian-Americans might draw “Frogs,” the Japanese-Americans “R**h**ds,” and etc. The following year would be a re-draw and it would start all over again.
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I figure in 100 years we would all be cool or we would all be dead; might be fun though. In the meantime, maybe everyone with the possible exception of Al Sharpton could just cool their jets a bit…
July 27th, 2012 8:36 am
Rob
Anglo Saxon was a term commonly in use at the time of the Titanic. See Lawrence Beeseley’s excellent account of the sinking. He was a survivor and attributes the honorable behavior of the passengers to their Anglo Saxon heritage. Interestingly, his grandson, William Broad, is now science writer for the NY Times and recently wrote of his grandfather’s experience. Teddy Roosevelt fully embraced, espoused his Anglo Saxon heritage and its perceived superiority over “lesser” races and peoples. See James Bradley’s account of Roosevelt’s daughter trip to the Far East in the early 1900s and how her father and trip companions felt such an overwhelming sense of superiority over the “Asian populace” as a result.
July 27th, 2012 9:04 am
"The Mick"
Thing about the “Asians” is that they were wearing silk and writing poetry when my ancestors were painting their butts blue, worshipping trees and wearing goatskins they washed yearly when they took the annual bath…
July 27th, 2012 1:38 pm
Kathy
@ Dennis, your post contains two falsehoods, popular on talk radio but completely wrong. First, President Obama did not give the Queen an iPod with his speeches–here’s what Snopes.com documented about this:
“As to “the gifts from Obama and Michelle were both tacky and in poor taste,” in April 2009 the Obamas presented the British sovereign with an iPod containing video and photos of her 2007 trip to the United States, plus a library of Broadway showtunes (which the Queen is rumored to love) and a rare songbook signed by the composer Richard Rodgers. The Queen presented the Obamas with a signed silver-framed photograph of herself and her husband, Prince Philip, a token she bestows on all visiting dignitaries.”
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/weddingsnub.asp
(Since you bring up “slights,” you may remember that on that trip it was President Bush who thought it clever to make a jab publically about the Queen’s age and the American Revolution while formally greeting her on the White House lawn.)
As for the bust of Churchill, it was moved from the Oval Office to the president’s residence (hardly a position of dishonor)–here’s a link to the White House blog with a photo of President Obama looking at the bust, with Prime Minister Cameron, in 2010.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/07/27/fact-check-bust-winston-churchill
July 27th, 2012 2:27 pm
Kathy
Well now I have to correct my own post, the Washington Post is reporting that there are actually two Churchill busts, one that was on loan to George Bush following 9/11, and when he was reelected the loan was extended for Bush’s second term.
When Obama took office it was returned.
And the second one was a gift to the WH, that’s the one in the residence.
Does the WH really need two busts of Churchill?
July 27th, 2012 4:52 pm
Dennis
Kathy,
Thank you for correcting the record. The difference between Bush slights and Obama’s, is that no one in Great Britain ever thought that Bush didn’t embrace and respect their country and its’ relationship with the United States. The same cannot be said for Obama.
July 27th, 2012 6:37 pm
chris
Actor John Saxon was in the movie Enter the Dragon…….him and Bruce Lee kicked some butt in that flick………hows that for a non political comment…….lol.
July 27th, 2012 10:03 pm
Lo Sbandato
John Saxon is Italian. His real name is Carmine Orrico.
Dennis – “No one in Great Britain”? Really, no one at all? Despite not being as totally awesome like the US, there are actually many people with many different opinions in little old England. Some of them even disliked Bush and like Obama. Oh, wait to you that just proves there’s idiots there too.
July 27th, 2012 10:39 pm
Dennis
Lo Sbandato – Without question Bush was not liked in Grreat Britain by a majority of the people. They thought he was a cowboy. That was not my point.
July 28th, 2012 10:28 am
Lo Sbandato
Dennis – But that’s what you said, “no one in Great Britain ever thought that Bush didn’t embrace and respect their country and its relationship with the United States.”
Many in Britain thought he callously used and manipulated that “special relationship” for his own ends, especially spending British lives to make his wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were “allied” crusades.
July 29th, 2012 11:11 pm
Stan
Lo says he doesn’t understand me…then says he can see how racially charged the statement was. Well,that’s what I said and everybody got that when I said it was like Aryan thoughts.
I am amazed at how right I can be..and how “twisty and vague” the other guy is to avoid admitting I was right. Read BANG A’s blog and Joe is doing the same thing…
July 30th, 2012 7:32 pm