I’m down on Livermore Valley as a wine area. I go wine tasting all the time. When I was a kid, I collected baseball cards. Now I go wine tasting. I taste in downtown Oakland — an absolute hoot. I taste in Alameda and Petaluma and Santa Rosa and Sonoma and Dry Creek and Russian River and Lodi and the Sierra foothills. I almost never taste in Napa because it’s too crowded and expensive and I’m no longer looking for cabernet or chardonnay. But I love Napa wines.
My beef is with Livermore. It’s about a half hour from my home. Sometimes, when I finish my column I drive out there and taste with the intention of buying. I always find something I want to buy at just about every winery I ever visit and I feel it’s polite to buy if people are polite and generous. Everywhere I taste they charge a fee — let’s say 10 bucks — but waive the fee if I — or you — buy one bottle or more. I’m not sure if this still is the case in Napa because, as I say, I don’t go there much.
In Livermore they do not waive the fee. This is rude and just plain bad business. At Wente I bought a few bottles and the guy still asked for the 10 bucks. I said it’s customary to waive the fee if a customer buys wine. He told me I was “old style” and insisted I pay. I paid. In subsequent trips to Livermore wineries I have told the person serving the wine I would buy such and such bottles but only if the winery waived the fee. This usually caused consternation but in each case the fee got waived.
I don’t want that hassle anymore. I don’t want wine tasting to be filled with conflict. So, I won’t go to Livermore anymore. It’s not about the $10. I can afford that. It’s a matter of principle.
NeverWrong
Wine appreciation–the politically correct way to get blitzed.
July 8th, 2012 4:47 pm
CohnZohn
NeverWrong, Is that the only reason you go wine tasting, to get blitzed?
July 8th, 2012 4:52 pm
Brady
That is very, very poor treatment from them. You should come out here to taste the Mendocino wines – Anderson Valley, specifically. The majority of the wineries don’t have any tasting fee at all.
July 8th, 2012 5:35 pm
Travis
For the last two years when I’ve come down to the Bay Area to watch the 49ers I’ve gone to Sonoma to try to hit as many wineries as I can in one day. I usually do a tour and the fee you pay to the tour director covers the fees you typically pay so I have not had this problem.
But I think if you are buying a bottle or two then its common sense to waive the fee. After all you are supporting the Wineries by buying their product. The $10 doesn’t seem worth it if the customer gets so pissed he never comes back.
Also if he is ‘tasting’ they give you only enough to see what the wine is like, they do not give you enough to get loaded.
July 8th, 2012 6:02 pm
NeverWrong
I don’t go wine tasting. It’s boring.
July 8th, 2012 6:06 pm
Sean
I’ve always found wine tasting fees to be ridiculous, even if it’s just 5 bucks. It’s a marketing technique to try and turn a taster into a consumer. It’s the winery’s job to get us to open our wallets. When I go to buy a car there’s not a marketing surcharge to help pay for the car company’s commercials. It’s the commercials that helped sell the car just like it’s the tasting that helps sell the wine. You’re completely on point Lowell, it’s about principle, not the 5 or 10 bucks. And you’re even more right about Napa. I’ve been to wineries over there that charge 20 bucks a tasting fee just cause of the Napa name. Stopped going over there years ago.
July 8th, 2012 6:49 pm
cpgerlach
Absolutely Lowell – Bravo! People need to “speak with there wallets” more. Charging for wine tasting in the first place is a little suspect … but I get it, I guess, as long as it’s waived if you buy. Anything less is completely ridiculous. I’d out them, and not go back.
July 8th, 2012 6:51 pm
RC
They should waive it, I would only buy a bottle if they waive the tasting fee, agreed bad business. Plus, Livermore is an up and coming region and should do there best to distinguish themselves with good customer service and good value.
July 8th, 2012 7:00 pm
Johnc
It’s bad business because the winery stands to make money if you taste or buy.
What if you just bought a shirt in the giftshop? I have done that here in Santa Rosa, but in that case I expect to pay for tasting fees unless I bought a bottle.
July 8th, 2012 7:29 pm
lameduck
Agreed. I’ve never gone tasting in Livermore valley, and now i never will. Mrs. Lameduck drags me over to Napa sometimes and I find it beautiful. She enjoys the champagne cellars. Napa is OK once in awhile.
In Santa Rosa we ride our bikes down Olivet Road and find it very enjoyable.
The new Coppola in geyserville is fun if only to eat and lounge by the pool.
Last night I had a Gnarly Cab from Manteca of all places. It wasn’t bad.
July 8th, 2012 7:43 pm
CohnZohn
Brady, I should have mentioned Anderson Valley. I love their pinots.
July 8th, 2012 7:55 pm
lameduck
Or one could say to quit “wining”… nyuck nyuck nyuck
July 8th, 2012 8:12 pm
CohnZohn
lameduck, I’ve been to the wineries on Olivet Rd and I like them. Please stop fretting.
July 8th, 2012 8:16 pm
Brady
Lowell – couldn’t agree more. The Navarro Pinot is probably my favorite wine.
lameduck – have you had the Gnarly old vine Zin? I’m having a glass now. It’s a fantastic BBQ wine.
July 8th, 2012 8:33 pm
Bryan
I recommend spending a weekend in Murphy’s, Ca. Calaveras County wines are extremely under rated (one word?) and are very affordable. Great wine, good people, cute town, and many wine houses all on one street. Plus, IF they have a fee, they waive it if you buy. They tell you that upfront.
July 8th, 2012 9:42 pm
Gopal
I went to Sonoma last weekend.
I enjoyed the Russian river brewery more than the wines though.
July 8th, 2012 9:45 pm
Jim Bancroft
I just looked at Wente vineyards website and it says they charge a tasting fee of $15 for members and $20 for non-members. So it looks like Lowell got off easy at $10, at least by their price list.
How much wine does someone typically drink at a tasting– one glass equivalent? Two? I’ve never been on a tasting so I wouldn’t know. If only a glass then the winery is doing well at $10.
July 8th, 2012 9:59 pm
B-Rad
We all can vote with our wallets.
If enough people feel like you, those wineries will analyze the economic
effects of going back to your preferred way of doing business versus closing the tasting rooms. This is how business works.
Except for MLB, I guess.
July 8th, 2012 9:59 pm
Steve
Yes, Anderson Valley And Yorkville Highlands Pinots can be excellent. I especially like anything from Ferrington vineyards in Boonville. West Dry Creek Road in Healdsburg has some superb wineries featuring Pinots and Zinfandels. It’s rare to find wineries in these regions that charge a tasting fee – they’re confident that their wines will sell with a taste or two. Wineries in these regions even offer chocolate as a compliment to the tasting. I lived in Switzerland for 8 years and traveled throughout Europe and never encountered a winery that charged a tasting fee. I refuse to pay a fee to taste a thimbleful of wine.
July 9th, 2012 12:44 am
Tommy CostaRica
Hey, it used to be free everywhere in Sonoma and Napa wineries! I remember in 1990 the Sonoma County wine map only had 150 wineries on it. I was dating an incredible broad and had a new 1989 convertible Mustang and that summer we hit every winery on the map. In those days you bought the wine because the tasting was free and like you say if the people serving you were nice you couldn’t help but buy a bottle or two to take home!
July 9th, 2012 7:46 am
Rob
Napa wineries almost universally charge for tasting, and not many waive fees. It’s become very expensive to taste there. Twenty or so years ago, tasting rooms, Napa and elsewhere, seldom charged. Hospitality was the watchword.
Today, it’s sales, and hosts often work off commission. Just not the same experience anymore, sadly enough.
July 9th, 2012 8:00 am
mbabco
Last time I was at Navarro there was no fee plus a ton of stuff to taste. I love their Pinots and the Edelzwicker.
July 9th, 2012 8:11 am
mike
Lowell – You need to try the wineries in Idaho and do some fly fishing while you are at it. It is spectacular and a fabulous outing. You can fly from Oakland into Idaho Falls on Allegiant Air for around $49 each way plus taxes, etc.
July 9th, 2012 9:27 am
Mark M
Wente sucks. Try the Santa Cruz mountain area for a more cooky and tasty experience. Pure fun!
July 9th, 2012 10:18 am
Brady
mbabco – Navarro never has a tasting fee, and their menu includes 12-16 different wines to taste, plus non-alcoholic drinks and crackers. They also have the added bonus of being the only place that sells their wine. The majority of wineries in that region are free; the only one I’ve been to that had a tasting fee waived it when they realized that my mom and I were actually tasting the wine, not trying to get drunk.
July 9th, 2012 10:41 am
chris
my 83 year old mother went to Wente in April. She agrees with you 100% Lowell about the fee B.S.
July 9th, 2012 12:14 pm
lameduck
Brady, just tried the Gnarly Old Vine Zin and it was nice.
I went to Murphy’s years ago. I remember some place with a giant gold nugget in the tasting room…
July 9th, 2012 12:54 pm
Dennis
I took my wife to Italy one year and as part of the trip we decided to do a wine tour of the Tuscan region. On our way to the area our driver asks if we are interested in wineries or wines. I told him we were more interested in the wines. So he takes us to a place called Greve. In Greve there is this old building with a basement about the size of a couple of basketball courts. In the middle of the basement is a circular counter with a guy, a cash register, and wine glasses. Around him are about 14 kiosks each with about 24 different bottles of wine. You can do the math as to how many bottles that is. Anyway, each bottle is in a holder and it is upside down. So what you do is you go to the counter give the guy, say $20, and he gives you a gift credit card for that amount along with a glass. You go to the kiosk and see that the price for a shot of each particular wine is labeled on the bottle. You pick a wine, you swipe your card, you put your glass under the bottle and a shot drops out, right into your glass. The price of the shot is determined by the price of a bottle of wine. The more expensive the bottle wine the more expensive the taste.
So after a few shots I go get the guy and tell him I want a case of this and a half a case of that and I just keep right on tasting. Then my gift card runs out. No problem he goes and gets me a free one with unlimited credit. So I keep tasting and buy a few more cases of wine, all of which they gladly ship home for me. It was a great efficient use of my time and I am surprised I have never run into something like that here.
Anyway, you should come down to the Central Coast. I am about 10 minutes from Paso Robles and 20 minutes from San Luis Obispo. I’ll take you around to all the wineries you want. It would be my first time going wine tasting in my own back yard. I am not sure what our local policy is on the tasting fee.
July 9th, 2012 4:14 pm
KauaiRobert
Don’t whine about wine.
.
.
.
*ALOHA*
July 9th, 2012 4:20 pm
Lo Sbandato
I have to question the efficacy of tasting fees. Marketing-wise, it might give the image of exclusivity, but it also easy to see it as damned annoying. Business-wise, I have a hard time believing wine is such a low-margin venture that you have to resort to such fees for revenue. Even supermarkets give free samples, and their margins are tiny!
To not waive it for someone making a purchase is simply punching yourself in the face, as a seller. Might as well call it what it is in that case: a tax, a tax for tasting their product.
July 9th, 2012 9:32 pm
Stan
I myself have lately preferred the tartness of Lemonade Kool-Aid over my older favorite,Lemon Lime Kool- Aid. As a child I loved that Root Beer Kool-Aid. To my dismay,they haven’t made that flavor for decades.
July 10th, 2012 1:37 pm
Lindsey
I think you all need to think about from the wineries POV. Yes, no secret, I am in the wine business. But, just do the math people! Wineries are part entertainment/part wine business. It is not free to maintain, keep good staff, landscape, etc… oh and did I mention making the wine?? That is not a cheap venture. Equipment, barrels, bottles, lables, etc are not cheap! Sure, there is markup, but in small wineries, which Livermore has a lot of, overhead is not cheap and they margin is narrow. In Napa, those places entertain 1000′s of tourist and no surprisingly, they charge because it is expensive to entertain you and create great wine! Sure, the wine is expensive, but so is it to make. Just do the math! Wineries want buyers and while they don’t mind customers that buy a bottle here and there, they want real buyers who buy lots of wine. I bet if you buy a case, they will hand you back your tasting fee. Tasting fees weed out the riff-raff and customers who think that wineries should bow down to them for buying two bottles and on top of it… return money to them even though they were probably poured almost 8 ounces and entertained you for an hour. Do you go into a wine bar and demand $10 back for buying a bottle? Livermore is not up and coming. It has been around for decades like Sonoma. It just needs some better marketing to bring in better clientele. Not people who quibble about $10 or write about in a blog and then say “it’s not about the money.” Sure it is… Those customers, I am guessing, they don’t need.
July 13th, 2012 2:45 pm
CohnZohn
Lindsey, You make good and passionate points and I am gratified you took the time to express your point of view. Please indulge me in a rebuttal. As a consumer, I prefer to taste at wineries that refund the ten bucks if I buy their wine. I would be a poor consumer if I were to taste in Livermore where they don’t refund the $10 as opposed to, say, the wineries (many up and coming) in the Rock Wall building in Alameda who do refund the ten bucks if I purchase wine.
July 13th, 2012 4:01 pm
Lindsey
Thanks for the rebuttal and appreciate your reply! I agree that new businesses need to do all they can to get taster’s in the door. But, I bet after those wineries in Rock Wall have had their doors open for over a decade, they too will be jumping the “waive with purchase” ship. It is a business model that is just simply unsustainable over time. For example, a new restaurant opened down the street from me. They aren’t doing very well. They are doing very little advertising and aren’t offering any coupons or BOGO. They should be reaching out and giving away their food to get people to come back. Once the restaurant succeeds they can ween off those gimmicks and relay on returnees and word of mouth. This is very similar to wineries in Livermore or Napa for that matter. When wineries give back $10, you are essentially giving $10 off the bottle,a 1/5 of a bottle of wine poured, as well as the 1/2 hour of staff time it took to sell the one bottle to you. As I said.. do the math. A $24 bottle just cost a winery almost the entire cost of the bottle. If four walked in and two bottles went out, wineries are in the hole. Wineries are an entertainment business and you have to pay to play. I don’t know how many times I have heard.. Let’s go to taste wine at Napa for the day. It is now a staycation plan and I bet half those people don’t return with a bottle. Napa can’t afford to entertain the entire bay area for free and neither can Livermore, Lodi, Santa Cruz, Sonoma or any other wine region. I just think if you are going to make some fairly global comments about a wine region, as a journalist, you have to be a little impartial and look at both sides before you flippantly swear off a region over $10.
July 14th, 2012 8:47 am